Nearly 100 years after Salem, a German immigrant widow in Vermont faced trial by water ordeal for witchcraft. In 1785, Margaret Krieger was dropped through ice into the freezing Hoosick River—and survived.
Guests:
Joyce Held, Pownal Vermont Historical Society – researcher who uncovered Margaret’s full story
Jamie Franklin, Bennington Museum Curator – connected the trial to post-Revolutionary War political tensions
Key Points:
Margaret Schumacher Krieger (1725-1790) married Johann Krieger in 1741, moved to frontier Vermont
After Johann’s death in 1785, neighbors accused her of witchcraft to seize the family’s mill and land
Recent research suggests the family were Loyalists, adding political motivation to the accusations
Margaret was acquitted after surviving the water test and moved back to Massachusetts
Modern Legacy:
Historical marker installed 2023 at Strobridge Recreation Park, North Pownal, VT
Annual Witches Walk commemorating “extraordinary women” – next event September 13, 2025
Connect:
Facebook: Pownal Historical Society
Website: www.pownal.org
This case reveals how witchcraft accusations often masked land disputes, cultural tensions, and political conflicts in post-Revolutionary America.
Join us this week as Dr. Danny Buck explores astrology and the witchcraft trial of Mark Prynne, a tenant farmer accused of witchcraft in the 17th century by Great Yarmouth town clerk Miles Corbett. The discussion considers the perception of astrology during the golden age of astrology and how it influenced the outcomes of witchcraft accusations in Great Yarmouth during the English Civil War. Learn about the intriguing behaviors of local figures like Miles Corbett, John Taylor and Matthew Brooks during the Great Yarmouth witch trials of 1645 and 1646 and other notable historical men like astrologer William Lilly and infamous Witch Finder Matthew Hopkins. The episode addresses the peak and decline of the fear of witchcraft beliefs, reflecting a notable shift in societal attitudes at the end of the trial.
Josh Hutchinson: Hello, and welcome to Witch Hunt, the podcast that explores historic witchcraft trials and modern witch hunts in search of an end to witch hunting in all forms. I'm Josh Hutchinson.
Sarah Jack: And I'm Sarah Jack.
Josh Hutchinson: We're descendants of people accused of witchcraft.
Sarah Jack: And we're here to tell stories of people like them.
Josh Hutchinson: We cover the past, present, and future of witch hunting.
Sarah Jack: Witch hunting dates back thousands of years.
Josh Hutchinson: The practice occurred all across the ancient world.
Sarah Jack: And continued through the classical era and the medieval period.
Josh Hutchinson: In Europe, witch trials ramped up in the early modern period and resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands.
Sarah Jack: But witch hunts also have occurred in other parts of the world, and they've [00:01:00] never stopped anywhere.
Josh Hutchinson: Witch hunts, now mostly unsanctioned, occur in all corners of the globe today, killing thousands per year.
Sarah Jack: As historian Wolfgang Behringer has stated, 'there have never been so many witch hunts as we see in today's world.'
Josh Hutchinson: Today's guest is Danny Buck, who introduces us to the witch trials of astrologer Mark Prynne of Great Yarmouth, England.
Sarah Jack: Along the way, we'll meet an interesting cast of characters and learn about astrology's role in 17th century England.
Josh Hutchinson: Danny tells us about the golden age of astrology and the great astrologers of England in the 17th century.
Sarah Jack: He shares the different perspectives on astrology, including the impact of Puritan beliefs on the perception of astrology.
Josh Hutchinson: We'll learn what astrological products exist and what their uses are.
Sarah Jack: Today, we focus on the intriguing figure of Mark Prynne, who was an amateur astrologer who was [00:02:00] involved in locating lost goods and helping his neighbors determine the future.
Josh Hutchinson: We'll also learn about the antagonist to Mark Prynne, a MP named Miles Corbett. We'll learn about his leading role in the witch hunts and the accusations specifically against Mark Prynne. We'll also learn how he was satirized by poet John Taylor, who wrote a book called A Brief Relation of the Idiotisms and Absurdities of Miles Corbett, Esquire, Counselor at Law, Recorder, and Burgess for Great Yarmouth.
Sarah Jack: This is the podcast's second visit to the witch hunt of 1645 in Great Yarmouth. Dr. Buck is going to give us an overview of the witch hunt where Mark Prynne faced allegations of practicing sorcery and using witchcraft. We will also hear about a second round of accusations in the spring of 1646.
Josh Hutchinson: And we'll conclude [00:03:00] by learning the aftermath of the witch hunt, including the fates of both Mark Prynne and Miles Corbett.
Sarah Jack: Welcome, the first guest of Witch Hunt, returning favorite, Dr. Danny Buck, a Norfolk research historian specializing in the connection between witch hunting, politics, and religious division. In his previous appearance, he kicked off Episode 6 with a discussion on witch hunting during the English Civil War in Great Yarmouth, the place where William and Joanna Towne began their family relocating to the New World and settling in Salem Village. Make sure to revisit that fantastic episode. In this discussion, Dr. Buck delves further into the religious and political conflicts that shape the Great Yarmouth witch trial of amateur astrologer Mark Prynne.
Josh Hutchinson: How was astrology perceived in early modern Great Yarmouth? And why was it important?
Danny Buck: There's the three elements which I find very interesting about how astrology was perceived. At one level, it's something that seems very [00:04:00] useful to ordinary people. We've got records going back as far as the 16th century of a man called William Wicherly, who admitted he did conjure in a great circle with a sword and ring consecrated, and Thomas Owldring of Yarmouth, who was a conjurer and had good books of conjuring, who people were going to visit.
Danny Buck: They were seeking to understand the future. And also search for lost property. For others it was actually a way of looking for their, using predictions, to look at their medical health. So find a diagnosis and seek medical treatment. As we're going to look at, for some people this element of astrology cutting into conjuring, the act of charms and raising spirits for advice is cutting into witchcraft, that you're not just looking to do a predictable science, understanding God's plan for the universe with the stars, but in fact actually asking the dead for [00:05:00] advice, or even devils. Finally, there were some people rather cynical about this, even by the middle of the 17th century. People who were thinking that astrology is nothing but a con trick, a way for illiterate peasants or gullible guests to seek lost things from someone who could tell them what they wanted to hear, probably closer to our idea of cold reading,someone who can speak the names of the constellations enough to seem educated or have some secret knowledge over the rest of them.
Sarah Jack: What was the golden age of astrology?
Danny Buck: This is a difficult question. Obviously, astrology has been something that we can go all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia, if not earlier. People have always looked to the stars and tried to seek meaning in them. We think of things like Halley's Comet being seen just before the Battle of Hastings as an ill omen for the Saxons. But the 17th century introduced a couple of elements that made astrology more accurate, or at least to [00:06:00] those who believed in it. Accurate clocks meant that birth dates would not be a vague day, but be put down right to the hour. Increasingly accurate telescopes and astronomical, as opposed to astrological, equipment was being invented that meant that stars could be understood in ever greater clarity and purpose.
Danny Buck: Think it was Bernard Capp who said that the last of the astrologers were the first of the astronomers. I think a very famous astrologer for the court in Poland, Copernicus, started off as the court astrologer. This meant that you could ask for a birth chart from an astrologer and you could put it down to the minute and therefore get what would seem to be an increasingly accurate diagnosis.
Danny Buck: But also, because of the printing press, astrology became ever more accessible to the ordinary person. The astrologer I want to talk about today, Mark Prynne, started his career with basically like a dummy's first guide [00:07:00] of how to look at the stars. Something, a brief of Moulsons Almanac. So again, as opposed to the full book, it's a brief, so it's been shortened and made more accessible for the ordinary reader, as opposed to the larger original, I think it's originally a 15th century French almanac.
Josh Hutchinson: What other products did astrologers create?
Danny Buck: The most obvious one is the element of prediction, which is by casting a chart. This isn't a particularly visual medium, but you can often see them survive in this period, often with a square with a circle inside, or some pattern of that, which is then used to reflect the houses of the stars and their positions and how that therefore interacts with the balance of the humours and health, as well as a person's personality. Again, today art forms tend to be a bit more circular, but they still are used by people. You also have the almanac itself. So the almanac is an interesting [00:08:00] product. Obviously, we still produce almanacs for people. Some of them are not astrological, just to tell us what's happened in a year.Cricketing almanacs, etc. But for the 17th century almanacs, these are being produced annually, often being used to record dates which are important for people to know and how far we are from the creation of the world or the birth of Christ, etc. But they're also used to look at conjunctions. What are the weird
Danny Buck: astronomical phenomena that are going to occur?
Danny Buck: And actually these take on quite a political element. I was just catching up today in preparation for this, and there's a wonderful piece by Imogen Peck called 'A Chronology of Some Memorable Accidents, the Representation of the Recent Past in English Almanacs,' which looks at how in the aftermath of the Civil War,people were still looking and looking at the past through almanacs in a way that reflected their own political biases.
Danny Buck: However, this was a lot more [00:09:00] complex during the Civil War itself, when there were a variety of rival almanacs. In particular, William Lilly is famous because he produced an almanac that showed how the stars were showing that Parliament's victory was imminent, but he did have a Royalist rival producing his own, believing evidence of Royalist victory, which unsurprisingly he fell into obscurity while Lilly, with a somewhat more accurate prognosis, continued to thrive.
Danny Buck: These, weren't, particularly expensive objects. They're almost mass produced, what we refer to often as ephemera. So relatively cheap paper, but were being produced through the stationers companies. They'd often rely on family names, families of astrologers, so in particular in Great Yarmouth we haveGeoffrey La Neve, starting in 1604. On his death in 1613, his nephew Jeffrey, with a J, continued the almanacs until he was dismissed for being a bit dodgy in the local corporation. And his cousin John Neve took over, continuing the almanac from [00:10:00] 1626 until 61. So these reliable names meant that people could trust them. And again, it's something that continues until at least the 18th century. I think Franklin got, Benjamin Franklin of the American Revolutionary fame got his start faking an almanac, claiming the original author had died and he was replacing him in his usual, slightly trollish way. And then on top of this we get some bigger publications. So we've mentioned, Lilly's Christian Astrology, but also these different guides how to, and evolvement.
Danny Buck: It's quite interesting because again, some of these do bring up witchcraft and the ways that astrology can be used against them. Finally, we've got that medical product that this ability to accurately understand people's maladies was quite important. In particular, I find it quite interesting a reference in the Great Yarmouth corporation book to Mark Prynne helping a distracted man in the town's bridewell. So this is the poor relief, the precursor to the workhouse. And again, [00:11:00] distracted, it's a very vague term, but suggests some kind of mental illness. That somehow this astrological conjunction, and again, it fits into our sort of later idea of things like lunacy and that connection between the stars and mental health that still remains current into the 19th century.
Danny Buck: Finally, there's this element of what they could do for you. Well, they can find the things you've lost. So in particular, we know that Mark Prynne found a variety of objects, and it's been satirised by poets afterwards that he could find anything from a calf to a windmill or a millstone, but certainly there's evidence of finding things like a particular, a man called John Sparke, a sailor nearby who had a lost hat, a cushion, and I think a gold ring, so these are an interesting variety of small items that could be easily lost. Again we don't know how much this is cold reading, that he somehow being able to talk to them, is able to deduce what's going on. Or, again, if he's being consulted, he's not necessarily successful.
Josh Hutchinson: It's interesting, you mentioned William [00:12:00] Lilly, and I just want to point out that one of his books showed up in Connecticut in a witch trial of Katherine Harrison and was used as evidence against her.
Danny Buck: That is fascinating. I find that astrologers are still, they are the more acceptable side of magic. At least, your official names, your Lillies,and they've got a high status. They're protected by, they've got connections. William Lilley, he claimed that he'd spoken to King Charles and advised him to not try and escape Carisbuck Castle. it's easy to say after the event, but he also advised parliamentarian generals. And again, there doesn't need to be anything therefore incompatible for some people with astrology.
Danny Buck: But there was also a fear. William Lilly, as well, mentioned there was fear he was accused of being a juggling wizard and imposter. There's a fear about them being compared to necromancers, so being able to somehow predict [00:13:00] using the dead. And again, there's an earlier generation there responding to men like John Dee and John Lamb, who were certainly in this box of people who are engaging in dark magic and dark practice that was unacceptable. Judith Bonzol, in her guide to William Lilly's life, mentioned that he is someone who is afraid of this line, and in particular he offers anti-witchcraft medical treatments, which actually is quite interesting because it's very much linked to the kind of witch bottles, which obviously we've looked at before, where he mentions the need to boil the patient's urine together with pins, nail parings, and the hair of the victim as a remedy against witchcraft.
Danny Buck: But he gave the example that's a relatively scientific explanation. These are natural experiments and work by sympathy, in order to torment the witch and draw her out of hiding, which then, in theory, brought relief to the victim.
Danny Buck: Of course, the most recent volume of Lilly's publications came out in the 1680s, so in time to be influencing the [00:14:00] beliefs of people in Salem.
Sarah Jack: Who was Mark Prynne?
Danny Buck: I've mentioned him a couple of times now. I've found him a wonderful figure. He's one of these people that just jumps out of the records in a really interesting way. Again, I'm very grateful to Peter Elmer, the excellent historian of witchcraft, who's certainly retired now, and getting a chance to speak to him when I was at UEA. And he brought this to attention. He, again, in his index to his wonderful Politics and Witchcraft, he brought up a lot of the details I'm going to rely on. We are always able to see so far because we're standing on the shoulders of giants.
Danny Buck: But he is a fascinating figure. He's definitely an amateur astrologer. Unlike La Neve, unlike Lilly, it isn't his full time job. He's mostly a tenant farmer. In the town, he's renting land from the local ministry at one point and using that. So this is almost like a sideline, as the Americans say a side hustle, to provide a little bit of extra income. So we don't know much about his family, where [00:15:00] he's come from. We do know he's educated, because he's noted as having a very large collection of books for the time, of theological, historical, and philosophical books. Again, he particularly mentions Moulsons Almanac, who we've described as a brief of the famed Shepherds. And we know he's being employed by local residents. So we've got hats, pillows, are definitely being searched for. John Taylor claims a lost cow, calf, horse or cart, silver spoon or bodkin, knife or ring, millstone, windmill, cork. But I think he, again, is being a little bit ridiculous. We know he's being paid 30 shillings, which is quite a lot of money, for curing one Tills, the distracted man who I mentioned earlier.
Danny Buck: And we know that this medical treatment is already current with people like La Neve. This all suggests he is in demand, he is someone who's being employed quite regularly, even if this isn't his full time career.
Josh Hutchinson: What do we need to know about his landlord, the minister?
Danny Buck: We're very lucky that there's an interesting connection here.[00:16:00] Prynne is renting land from Matthew Brooks. Matthew Brooks, as we mentioned a little bit last time, was a veryLaudian minister in a town that was very Puritan, so they did not get on well. So he arrives at the town in 1630 in the middle of a crisis, where they're trying to handle the presence of the town's Puritan minister, who's being pushed to one side by the Dean and Chapter of Norwich, the more Laudian authorities. And he starts making a splash pretty early. By December 1631, he marches into the church and reads the 1627 injunctions against the Puritan minister, which means he's then arrested by the town's corporation. So in particular, Henry Davy, Thomas Green, Ezekiel Harris, and a man who we're definitely going to come back to later, Miles Corbett.
Danny Buck: Because of this, he sends a petition to the king. He's supported to the hilt and in response those people [00:17:00] arrested him were arrested in turn for a while. The king sides with Brooks, he gets authority from it. Brooks works very closely with the bishop of Norwich, Wren, from 1645 onwards, and he carries out a campaign that's really aggressively anti-Puritan. He makes the church look nice. He brings in stained glass windows, he gets rid of the raised seating used by the Puritan authorities so they could look down on the folk of Yarmouth and keep an eye on them, make sure they're behaving properly in church. And this feud between Brooks and Corbett deepens in 1637, when Corbett is accused of harbouring two émigré nonconformist ministers, so some real religious radicals, who'd come over to Great Yarmouth, smuggled in a lot of anti-Laudian books and hidden, pretending to be soldiers who'd been fighting in the Netherlands, and they take dinner in Miles Corbett's house, allegedly.
Danny Buck: Brooks is very diligent about investigating it, like a [00:18:00] little detective. This gets worse from 1640 as Wren, his bishop protégé, has moved on to Ely and, obviously with the collapse of the royal government and the collapse of the episcopate, the Church of England, there's a lot of tension for locals. And we are helped by what for me is a lovely document, a very fascinating document from the Parliamentary Archives, as he writes a petition to the House of Lords saying, 'can you stop them bullying me?' It's not great stuff for, Brooks. Brooks, sadly, I think at one point he mentioned he's being threatened by the wife of the alderman that she's going to throw lime and blind him, lime in his eyes, along with sand. His assistant, Thomas Cheshire, who we're going to come back to, is being, when he's walked through the very narrow streets in Great Yarmouth, which are called rows that go up and down to allow easy fishing in [00:19:00] the town, he's jostled, he's got people slamming their elbows into his back, and he's forced to leave in 1638.
Danny Buck: The saddest example, if you'll forgive my tangent, because this is such a rich colour, that while Brooks has gone to London to defend himself about attempts to try and remove him, there's a large group of angry, drunken locals get together. They have a big bonfire outside his house. They go to Ezekiel Harris, who obviously holds this grudge against Brooks, and they get roaring drunk. He provides them with massive beer. They then turn up to this bonfire. There's supposedly three of them in disguise as the three most important people in the kingdom. Considering this is 1640, I think it's likely you've got the Archbishop Canterbury, William Laud, because it gets mentioned later, the King, and probably Black Tom Strafford, the Earl of Wentworth. They're having this massive party. They, obviously Brooks isn't there. Instead it's just his housemate and his poor, [00:20:00] heavily pregnant wife and their eight children, terrified. And these mass mob comes out knocking on the door, demanding entry in the name of the Archbishop of Canterbury, presumably the man in costume. So again, there's a real tension already, this desire to purge the town of people they see as dangerous and too lenient and not Puritan enough. And it's this crowd that Prynne is hanging out with, so again it's one of the things that's going to be a black spot against him with the Puritan authorities.
Josh Hutchinson: You mentioned Miles Corbett. Can you introduce us to him?
Danny Buck: Miles is a fascinating figure in his own right. So he's the second son of Sir John Corbett, a baronet from Sprowston. That probably means very little to you. Hopefully, there's a Sprowston somewhere in America amongst the other many English renamed settlements, but this one is a slightly unimpressive outskirts of Norwich today, but again, it's [00:21:00] not an unpleasant place.
Danny Buck: He's a well-educated man. He goes to Christ's College, Cambridge in 1612. He attends Lincoln Inn. He's training as a lawyer before being called to the bar in 1623. In 1625, he becomes the town recorder for Great Yarmouth, so that's a role which encompasses both your town's legal expert, lawyer, but also having a role acting as a judge in court cases.
Danny Buck: Obviously it's very important we're coming back to the witch hunt. His brother was the MP for the town and was arrested by King Charles, as well, the five members who resisted his call for a loan to try and sponsor the war against Spain and France,and sadly dies in prison, which again, likely one of the reasons why Corbett is so anti-government and so angry with the Church of England there, as well as his time in Cambridge.
Danny Buck: He also undertook the role for King's Lynn and Aldeburgh recorder, which again is quite interesting, because both of those towns are towns that are touched by the [00:22:00] witch hunt. And again, one of the things I've always wanted to do is to really get into depth and look at some of these communities, because also Southwold is well connected to Corbett.
Danny Buck: Is he someone who's helping to persuade Matthew Hopkins to come along the East Anglian coast, that all these towns are towns which he's connected to? This is something thathopefully Marion will find the answer for that. I'm looking forward to that as part of her wonderful Seven Counties project, but he's definitely someone to keep an eye on for that.
Danny Buck: His allies might say he's a very rigorous man, legally trained, has a very important role to play in the Long Parliament, and he remains as MP up until 1660, so obviously proves himself loyal. He's involved in Ireland, as well, during the Commonwealth, trying to sort out land there. But for his enemies, Taylor describes him as a stiff cathedral hater, a utopian of no religion, and whose [00:23:00] fired zeal led him to be cruel to toothless aged ministers. Even crueler, newspapers in the 1650s were comparing him to the devil, saying he was very dark, which again, I always wonder again, he's someone from Sprowston. Is he quite swarthy? We don't know. There's a couple of lovely prints of him, where he looks he's doing all right for himself in the 1650s, he looks quite prosperous.
Danny Buck: And one of the lovely things we've got in the Norfolk archives is this little paper, it's like a two pieces of A5 folded together to form a little booklet. Which is rather touching, because it notes the date when he was married, and it notes the exact date to the hour his children were born. And obviously this is something he kept with him, which I find very sweet. He's a very human figure despite all this. So his role in the witch hunt? Obviously then we've said that he's the recorder. He's the one gathering the evidence. He's also, in his role as town clark, he's keeping an eye on the papers, and he's likely the person who sent the [00:24:00] invitation to Hopkins to come to Great Yarmouth in the first place. So he's deeply enmeshed.As we look, there's accusations he took a much deeper personal interest in the case against Mark Prynne.
Sarah Jack: What kind of charges were brought against Mark Prynne?
Danny Buck: So in 1638 he's first accused of using charms to locate the lost goods of one John Sparke, a sailor. But in 1645, he faced the much more serious allegations of practicing sorcery, so using witchcraft to locate lost goods belong to Anne Can and John Ringer, who's a mason. He's also indicted for using witchcraft on John Howlett, a goldsmith, and his son also named John, conveniently, who were both sick at the time of the trial.
Josh Hutchinson: Since it's been a while since we spoke about the 1645 witch hunt, can you refresh our memories with a brief overview of that?
Danny Buck: So it starts in the 22nd of April in [00:25:00] 1645, with Howlett and his son John being some of the first people to make their accusations of witchcraft. This leads to eventually ten people being accused, six convicted, of which five are hanged for the crime. There's also a second round of accusations in the spring of 1646, six are made, but all six of them are found not guilty.
Sarah Jack: And how did the community respond to the allegations against Prynne?
Danny Buck: As far as we can tell, early on there seems to be this support, the growing support after this, that there's increasing numbers of accusations that follow this. So we have a few more people, as we noted accusers being brought, not just Howlett and his son. But the trial itself, we have an account of Thomas Cheshire, so the man who'd been the assistant to Brooks, arriving and giving testimony, defending,it's the kind of defense where this man isn't a witch, [00:26:00] he's just a con man, but it's still better than being hanged. So there does seem to be some people willing to rally in his support, and obviously he's found not guilty, so obviously the jury are convinced that he isn't someone who's engaged in witchcraft.
Josh Hutchinson: What kind of evidence would they have presented against him?
Danny Buck: So from the collection, from the account we've got, obviously we have the trial records, and we know people are speaking in evidence for and against. But in particular, we have an account, a hostile account to Miles Corbett that mentions that the evidence being brought in front of the jury included Prynne's collection of astrological books.
Danny Buck: So we've mentioned Molson's Almanac, we've also got a book of merry fortune telling with the forms of dice and stars. Also, something which is referred to as a book of circles, so again, presumably these are different forms of charts being used. I've spoken to some people upon this, and they suggest possibly the [00:27:00] Greater and Lesser Keys of Solomon or something called the Picatrix, which are being brought in front of them as official texts. The allegation is that the names of constellations and the names of the astrological forms sound quite demonic. Col Quintinta, Asaf Petita, Zazara Phila, and the allegation is that Miles Corbett is so ill educated he believes them bitter, stinking, and poxy devils, rather than obviously the form of the stars. He names Alabazama, Copernicus, Rombolax, and Mestopheles. So Copernicus the astrologer being treated as a demonic figure.
Josh Hutchinson: How did Puritan beliefs influence the witch hunt and the perception of astrology?
Danny Buck: Certainly there's an element of Puritan beliefs being used to interpret astrological evidence. Obviously, we've talked about William Lilly. William Lilly [00:28:00] had to directly write a book called Christian Astrology, trying to seek to show this connection between astrological formations as a way to determine the future, as opposed to other forms. It's a very strict and narrow vision of what astrology could be.
Danny Buck: Previous people involved in this, obviously, we've mentioned at the start those two controversial 16th century figures. So they've mentioned the sword and ring consecrated as magical elements that could use to foretell the future. Similar to Debora Moretti when she was talking about the carafe that you could look into the crystal, you could look into the glass, you could see images, which is slightly more dangerous as opposed to just looking plainly at the stars. Again, compare that to our classic image of the fortune teller with the crystal ball, that these things are more dodgy. Similarly, I think John Dee allegedly had an obsidian mirror [00:29:00] taken from the Aztecs that he could use to communicate with angels. This is where it crossed over the line. So there is the possibility of that.
Danny Buck: The contemporary astrologer John Gadbury blamed pretenders for critics connecting astrology to magicians and necromancers.You have the astrologer's club, the educated types who could be reliable, and you have those slipping on the other side into magic, so being magicians and necromancers.
Danny Buck: Also, William Lilly himself sought to reject the dark sentence of oracles. So again, you're not seeking to commune with the dead or commune with devils to tell the future. You are just doing a nice scientific analysis of the stars, certainly in the context of the very favored imagination of the 1640s, where omens seem to be everywhere, and the devil's influence everywhere, looking instead of the heavens to more otherworldly and demonic forces. What's the risk? And as we saw that, John Taylor's [00:30:00] account there with that fear of constellations and devils, the two seeming interchangeable for those who don't know quite what's going on there. Then that astrology witchcraft could seem quite similar or close enough, despite the protestations by those people who wanted to prove it otherwise.
Sarah Jack: With Miles Corbett, he was a Puritan.
Sarah Jack: I'm thinking about the war that's happening, this antagonism that's between Brooks and Corbett, and then you've got this amateur astrologist, the devil in the community, I'm used to hearing how the Puritan ministers are seeing the devil in their people, butthey're seeing the devil from the other side right now in this situation?
Danny Buck: So Miles Corbett is a fascinating figure for that. So we said he's a Puritan, but he's not a Presbyterian Puritan. He's not someone who's seeking to build a new Church of England that's going to be Puritan. [00:31:00] He's instead closer in opinion to the kind of American congregational churches. He becomes a leading member of Great Yarmouth's Congregational Church, and that is a source of tension within the town. He writes letters to the corporation saying, 'why are you trying to exclude the Congregational Church from being part of our Puritan community?' Again, this split in the godly is something that's causing increasing tension. One of the fears of the devil is that he appears as angels in raiments of light, and there we have also groups of Anabaptists in Great Yarmouth at the same time.
Danny Buck: How much conformity can you have? In some ways, seeking someone who is obviously outside the pale you can unite around is something important, but this is something that goes way back. The first accusations are in 1638. While Corbett already has, we'd say, congregational leanings, he's communicating with congregationalists, people looking to build a new church the New England way, that divide is only [00:32:00] caused when there's an actual congregational church there. In this way, his role in promoting the witch hunt, in trying to seek to remove the devil, it provides a mirror to how ministers are, as well, I feel. The ministers in Great Yarmouth are involved in other accusations, particularly against Elizabeth Bradwell, a poor woman. We can see Corbett's crusade here as something that feels very personal, but again, we have reasons for thinking so, because of the way it's being treated as such, that it's used as something to ridicule Corbett later, for his superstition, his foolishness to get involved. But I feel, from the fact that he's so intertwined with these accusations, that it's something he takes seriously.
Danny Buck: And this man, who's been sitting there connected to the old regime and all its corruption provides a useful [00:33:00] vehicle to try and engage in this process of reformation and to reunite these two different kinds of godly people to make them move in the right direction. But again, it's one of those tragedies that, despite all this death that he's willing to engage in, it doesn't work really in the long term.
Sarah Jack: What is the outcome of criticism of this astrology being used by a farmer? As we know, Miles becomes a joke to some about this. What other outcomes were there?
Danny Buck: So this is particularly interesting for me. This is what brings it to life, is that this is used as part of a campaign. There's a wonderful poet, who I think we can describe in detail, John Taylor, who is in London during the 1630s. He's originally a waterboatman. He basically just travels across the river in his little [00:34:00] boat, creates ditties and witticisms, and is a very sharp wit. And now he feels a loyalty to the crown, but he also has a particular enmity against Miles Corbett and Corbett's role in London. The Civil War radicalizes him, so he starts producing political squibs in support of the king and against Parliament. But Taylor was arrested by Corbett and the Lord Mayor of London for seditious words against the five members, the people who the King tried to arrest in 1642, precipitating the Civil War. So Corbett becomes a particularly good example for him of someone he can satirize. He sees him as the classic example of the Parliamentarian elite. These people are officious, they're cynical, they are untrustworthy, and as the wonderfully titled poem, [00:35:00] A Brief Relation of the Idiotisms and Absurdities of Miles Corbett, Esquire, Council at Law, Recorder and Burgess for Great Yarmouth, they're idiots. He creates a wonderful 18 page pamphlet poem which lists 11 idiotisms in total.
Sarah Jack: And you're going to recite the 18 pages.
Danny Buck: Sadly, the last couple of pages have been damaged, but I will have to bring up some wonderful passages on the Corbett trial. This isn't the first time he attacks, Corbett. He does create a satirical parliamentary speech, which is allegedly by Corbett, which again shows his gullibility and his cruelty. And there's another one, 1641, which brings up the witchcraft case again, allegedly about the sort of things that Corbett's done in the year 1641. In the Idiotisms, we have, supposedly, allegedly Corbett presents a dog to the sessions for the crime of stealing some meat and accuses a man of stealing his own goods, even sort of him [00:36:00] getting drunk in the sand dunes outside the town. In particular, by Corbett's credulousness, his ill education, that means he sees Prynne as such a threat. It is a really good way to show the recorder's supposed injustice, credulity, and ignorance. So again, he can ridicule the recorder, he can ridicule puritism.
Danny Buck: Again, it's something that we can come back to because it's a theme that develops later, particularly after the Restoration, and about how people view witch hunting in general, which is part of the sort of end of that. But in this case, it's particularly useful, because he spends so much local detail trying to explain this case and explain why Corbett is useless.
Danny Buck: But he also does it in a way that feels quite modern, that what he ridicules isn't that somehow Prynne is a particularly skilled astrologer. He's just a con man. And it's part of the [00:37:00] expression of the idiotism of Corbett, is that he falls for this common man and sees him as a real danger, so just this sort of part time crook.
Danny Buck: 'There was a juggling, cunning man of fame, a nickname conjurer, Mark Prynne by name, whose skill was in astrology so great, that by that art he many folks did cheat. This Mark, pray mark me now that what here I write, could many fiends and planets recite, and more strange magic words from him would drop, there are in an apothecary shop.'
Danny Buck: Lovely bit where he describes where Thomas Cheshire has proven that Prynne is innocent. 'The substance of the book did straight explain to be as far from Master Corbett's talk as oatmeal is from eggs or cheese from chalk. And by that book's virtue we dare both to swear that no man can ever be a conjurer. They therefore, prayed the jury to conceive [00:38:00] the law cannot this man of life bereave. By their verdict, Prynne not guilty found and escaped a Popham check twixt sky and ground, and there the learned recoverer gained much credit, as some said, if they did not lie that said it.'
Danny Buck: So yeah, it's stirring stuff you could imagine around a pub after a few drinks.
Josh Hutchinson: What ultimately happens with Mark Prynne?
Danny Buck: This is the thing that, again, intrigues me with so much of this, that ultimately I don't know. He's found not guilty, he disappears from the record. Obviously we know that La Neve's almanacs continue into 1661. But we don't really hear much more about Prynne. Doesn't help that I've seen about four or five different spellings of his last name, anywhere from Pryne to Prince. And I know that Marion Gibson's new book is going to go from the ground up. I'm sure she has some tasty titbits for us about his life and career, but sadly this is where his story [00:39:00] ends, obviously a court case triumph for him, but sadly no further details on that.
Sarah Jack: Which I mean, we find that over and over, we hear, we have these court cases, they're intriguing, there's some details, we find, we get a look into a life and then that's the last word.
Danny Buck: Just lucky to have this much snapshots of him and Elizabeth Bradwell that mean we can build the sort of picture of their life and their beliefs, and again how these beliefs are changing, which I think is the most fascinating thing. I think one of the interesting elements in England is how this represents the peak of witchcraft beliefs and how already some of the themes of cynicism and rejection of witchcraft are starting to drop in. Obviously, there's still people like Joseph Glanville talking about witchcraft into the [00:40:00] 1680s. But by 1660s, we have Hudibras, the great epic poem about the life of the Restoration, but also looking back at what has happened in England during the Civil Wars and Commonwealth. And again, one of the first mentions we get of Hopkins and his reputation, along with the myth that he himself was hanged as a witch.
Danny Buck: So certainly that spirit of seeing the Puritan enthusiasm as being falling for fraudsters or an overenthusiasm about this is already coming out of Taylor's work in the middle of the 1640s, that these themes of how puritism is seen as an overreaction, it's interesting how this story is having much wider resonances.
Josh Hutchinson: What happened to Corbett with the Restoration?
Danny Buck: [00:41:00] He's elected to Parliament, and then people remember he's one of the regicides. He's the last person to sign the king's death warrant. So there's a general pardon, apart from the regicide, so he escapes to the Netherlands. So he's there with a group of regicides, and he's eventually caught in a daring raid by George Downing. If you want to know some of this detail, Charles Spencer's Kiss the King has a very vivid account of this. He's brought back. He has a rather touching last meal with his wife. We talked about he's obviously kept a record of her life alongside his, and is then executed for treason. So hanged, drawn, quartered, as you'd expect. So rather a grim end.
Josh Hutchinson: Is there anything else you wanted to touch on today?
Danny Buck: I also would recommend Bernard Capp. Bernard Capp is a really excellent writer in general on Stuart culture, but in particular in this account. He's [00:42:00] written.a very good biography of John Taylor and his fascinating life but also on astrologymore generally, definitely worth a check if you want to find out more of this stuff.
Sarah Jack: And now for a Minute with Mary.
Mary-Louise Bingham: November 23, 2023 was the last time that I visited Salem for at least one year. It was a special visit, because I went to Proctor's Ledge, not only to pay my respects to the 19 men and women who were hanged there in 1692, I also memorialized 19 men and women who were wrongfully accused and murdered for practicing sorcery and black magic as recent as October of 2023. These innocent women and men named came from countries such as Nigeria, South Africa, India, and the United States of America. I also tell the listener when that person died and the [00:43:00] circumstances of their brutal deaths. I urge you to watch this video on YouTube titled 'End Witch Hunts at Proctor's Ledge.' The link to the video will be in the show notes. Thank you.
Sarah Jack: Thank you, Mary.
Josh Hutchinson: Sarah has End Witch Hunts News.
Sarah Jack: End Witch Hunt News, a non profit organization, Weekly News Update. Thank you for joining us again this new year in unraveling obscure yet familiar witch hunt stories, true stories that persistently unfold in violence and the death of vulnerable and innocent society members today. We anticipate engaging with you each week as we navigate diverse and nuanced perspectives on magic, witchcraft, and the spiritual and supernatural across time, governments, cultures, and religions.
Sarah Jack: We must all respond to the destructive role of witchcraft fear driven actions. Exploring the intricacies of both historical witch trials and the ongoing [00:44:00] crisis of witch hunting alongside experts provides us with the necessary insights to take meaningful action. Witch hunts are a disturbing reality that persist, and as part of our podcast community, you play a crucial role in the collective advocacy. Thank you for tuning in, sharing our episodes, continuing the conversation with your sphere of influence, and asking leaders to take action.
Sarah Jack: Very recently in Malawi, there has been a heartbreaking incident of an elderly woman nearly buried alive after being accused of witchcraft. Recent podcast guest and Malawi advocate, Wonderful Mkhutche, reported that the sister of the accused witch passed away suddenly after a headache. The accusers then spread rumors attributing the death to magical harm caused by the accused. The victim was rescued just in time by the police, but all the perpetrators must be brought to justice.
Sarah Jack: A statement from Advocacy for Alleged Witches reads, 'we urge the Government of Malawi to take all necessary measures to [00:45:00] combat witchcraft accusations and witch persecution. Authorities should ensure that alleged witches are protected and witchcraft accusers, including those who aid and abet witch hunting in the communities, are punished.'
Sarah Jack: But this isn't isolated to Africa. There were individuals burned and killed just a few weeks before the end of 2023 in India, as well. In one incident, in Assam's Sonitpur district, a 30-year-old woman was brutally assaulted and set ablaze by a neighbor and accomplices. The motive behind the tragic attack was reportedly rooted in accusations of witchcraft harm against the accuser.
Sarah Jack: While attacks are still happening, there are advocates and organizations working to intervene. Please learn about these efforts and support them in any way you are able to. Take the action that you can. We must continue to cultivate societal values of compassion, understanding, and justice. It is our collective responsibility as a world community to unite against the inhumane treatment [00:46:00] of every innocent individual anywhere in the world, such as these women falsely accused of causing harm with witchcraft. Spread awareness. Share this information with your friends, family, and on social media. Use your voice to let others know about the urgency of combating witchcraft accusations and persecution.
Sarah Jack: Support advocacy groups. Organizations like the Advocacy for Alleged Witches are on the front line, fighting against such atrocities. Consider supporting them and similar groups dedicated to ending witch hunting. Contact authorities. Raise your voice by reaching out to relevant authorities and leadership. Urge them to take swift and decisive action to ensure justice for victims and accountability for all involved.
Sarah Jack: End Witch Hunts actively supports exoneration and memorial efforts that aim to honor victims and raise witch hunt awareness. Take a stand for justice. Sign our petition at change.org/witchtrials to urge the state of Massachusetts to amend legislation, ensuring the inclusion of [00:47:00] all those wrongfully executed for witchcraft in the Massachusetts colony. Five women faced unjust executions for witchcraft in 17th century Boston, and it's time to clear their names. Let's persist in elevating the voices of both historical and contemporary victims of witch hunts.
Sarah Jack: Unlock the power of supporting our podcast by becoming a monthly donor. Our monthly donors are our Super Listeners. As a Super Listener, your monthly contributions make a significant impact. Visit our website and easily sign up for any donation amount that suits you. Your generosity fuels the content you love.
Josh Hutchinson: Thank you, Sarah.
Sarah Jack: You're welcome.
Josh Hutchinson: Thank you for listening to the first episode of Witch Hunt.
Sarah Jack: Witch Hunt can't wait to meet with you next week.
Josh Hutchinson: So subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Sarah Jack: Be sure to visit at our new website, aboutwitchhunts.com/.
Josh Hutchinson: And remember to tell all your friends, families, and anybody you meet on the street all about Witch [00:48:00] Hunt, your favorite podcast.
Sarah Jack: Support our efforts to end witch hunts. Visit endwitchhunts.org to learn more.
Josh Hutchinson: Have a great today and a beautiful tomorrow.
This week Jamie Franklin, Director of Collections and Exhibitions at Bennington Museum in Vermont recounts the life and experiences of the accused witch Margaret Krieger. Jamie details what is known of her life and her 1785 trial. Learn about the broader context of the time period, the unique colonial history of the Southern Vermont region and the relevance of this topic even today. Integral to the discussion is Joyce Held’s research on Margaret’s life, the Pownal Historical Society’s role in erecting a historic marker, and the public dedication ceremony for the marker, aiming to honor Margaret Krieger’s memory. This lesser known accused witch in the American colonies underscores the significance of understanding the past and its influence on our global present.
Josh Hutchinson: Welcome to Thou Shalt Not Suffer: The Witch Trial Podcast. I'm Josh Hutchinson.
Sarah Jack: And I'm Sarah Jack. About two months ago, a group dedicated a memorial marker in Pownal, Vermont to Margaret Krieger, reportedly the defendant in a 1785 witch trial. We discuss the case in this episode.
Josh Hutchinson: Along the way, we learn about the history of Southwestern Vermont.
Sarah Jack: As part of that, we'll learn about the early German and English settlers of the area.
Josh Hutchinson: Learn the role the area played in the American Revolution.
Sarah Jack: And all about the Krieger family.
Josh Hutchinson: We'll also hear the full account of the witch trial.
Sarah Jack: Find out methods considered to test if Margaret Krieger was a witch.
Josh Hutchinson: And learn the outcome of the [00:01:00] trial.
Sarah Jack: Hear all about the memorable dedication of the marker for Margaret Krieger.
Josh Hutchinson: And learn about the Bennington Museum.
Sarah Jack: This fascinating history of Margaret Krieger is told to us by Jamie Franklin, the curator of the Bennington Museum in Bennington, Vermont.
Jamie Franklin: My name is Jamie Franklin, and I am informally, I'm just the curator. My formal title is Director of Collections and Exhibitions. And so I'm in charge of, as the title would imply, our collections. We have a large collection of archives, photographs, works of art, really, a really diverse collection that kind of tells the history of our region, Bennington, Southern Vermont, Vermont at large, and the immediately surrounding region in upstate New York, western Massachusetts, really from basically from colonial contact up to the present day.
Jamie Franklin: We have worked a little bit with the [00:02:00] indigenous peoples, and we're doing that more and more but largely from the colonial period up to the present day. And I'm in charge of our collections, making acquisitions, organizing most of our major exhibitions, those sorts of things.
Josh Hutchinson: Great. And what would you like us to know about Southern Vermont?
Jamie Franklin: We're right down here in the corner, Bennington, and even more particularly Pownal, where the Krieger Witch Trial actually occurred, is literally, Pownal is the furthest southwest in the state of Vermont, so we're right, border right up against the Berkshires in northwestern Massachusetts and upstate New York. Troy is just about a 45 minute drive west of us. And Vermont's history is unique in relationship to all of the other New England colonies. We were settled much later than all the other New England colonies. It really wasn't until the mid 18th century that there were permanent colonial settlements being established here in Vermont, and particularly it [00:03:00] started really here in southwestern Vermont.
Jamie Franklin: Bennington is often referred to as the earliest kind of permanent colonial settlement in Vermont, though Pownal has its own unique story, which we will dive into a little bit deeper. Yeah, nowe're right down here in the corner of the state next to New York and Massachusetts, and we have a little bit of a different story than a lot of the rest of New England.
Sarah Jack: What was the pattern of settlement or the communities in the area like at that point in time?
Jamie Franklin: Using Bennington as an example, the first kind of permanent colonial settlement that was established here in Bennington wasn't until 1761. It's a complicated story, because Vermont was the 14th state to join the Union, but it wasn't until 1791, after the Revolution, and the reason for that was because New Hampshire and New York were basically fighting over the land that would become Vermont, and the [00:04:00] original settlers that came up to Bennington started in central Massachusetts, Westfield as well as, Eastern Connecticut, the Norwich, Connecticut area, so the first kind of groups of settlers to arrive in Bennington were coming up from those regions, and they by and large were what were known as religious separatists, so the Congregational Church reigned supreme in New England in the 18th century, and the earliest settlers here in Bennington were basically escaping what they felt was a religious establishment that they no longer agreed with.
Jamie Franklin: They believed that you needed to confess publicly your faith in Christ. And the established congregational churches started to loosen up, and if your grandparents had confessed, then you were automatically inducted into the church, and so these separatists felt that was getting a little too loosey goosey for them, and so they were starting to establish their own churches, but their towns were taxing them to support the [00:05:00] established church. And so they were trying to establish their own churches. Some of those were able to do those within the community, but again, their tax money was going towards the establishment church. And so a lot of them were seeking to get away from that and establish their own churches in places that hadn't already been settled.
Jamie Franklin: And Bennington was one of those places those groups came to, because there really was no colonial settlement here in Bennington at that point. And Pownal was a little bit different. Pownal and the story of the Kriegers was that actually there was Germanic New York settlers who were arriving in what would have been the kind of far eastern reaches of the Rensselaerwick manor, which was basically an area of New York settlement attached to Troy and Albany, New York.
Jamie Franklin: And so there were what were referred to as Dutch settlers, they were actually Germanic settlers that had arrived in Pownal by about the 1740s. But they were basically under the assumption that area was controlled and owned by [00:06:00] New York. But when the English settlers, so the settlers who arrived in Bennington in the 1760s, they were basing their claims to the land on New Hampshire land grants through the English colonies, whereas the Dutch settlers ran into the assumption that it was owned by New York.
Jamie Franklin: When Pownal was formerly chartered by the English in 1760, there were already what were known as Dutch squatters there in Pownal, including the Krieger family and because Johann Juri Krieger, so Widow Krieger or Margaret Krieger's husband, had already established a gristmill there in Pownal along the Hoosic River. They made an exception for him. Most of the what they referred to as the Dutch squatters were kicked out by the English settlers. But they let Juri Krieger stay, because he had established and improved his land. And basically, they needed a mill, and he had already built one. And so they granted him an exception and gave him a plot of [00:07:00] land there next to his mill, where he and his wife, Margaret, and their family lived up until the time of the trial after Juri Krieger passed away in 1785.
Josh Hutchinson: Thank you. That was all so very interesting to me. Vermont kind of gets overlooked when you're thinking about colonial history. Think about the 13 colonies and don't realize what the struggle was going on for control of Vermont.
Jamie Franklin: mean, Vermont was actually an independent republic. So from 1777 until 1791 Vermont operated independently of the other United States and had its own Republican government. But it was wanting to be a state, but because of the dispute between New Hampshire and New York, they were operating independently for that period of time and in the period prior to the Revolution, there was a lot up in the air. That's the period of the Green Mountain Boys, which a lot of people, if they know anything about early Vermont history, that's what they [00:08:00] know, and a lot of that was centered right here in Bennington, because we fall right on what became the New York-Vermont border. And that was the disputed area between New Hampshire and Vermont. And that's the larger kind of political context of what was happening here in Vermont during that period.
Josh Hutchinson: I've been there to the Bennington Memorial.
Jamie Franklin: Yeah, the Bennington Monument. Yeah, that was, that was the whole history of the museum and the history of Bennington is connected in deep ways to the Bennington Monument.
Josh Hutchinson: And in the late 18th century, what would life have been like for someone like a Widow Krieger?
Jamie Franklin: Widow Krieger, Margaret Krieger, and her husband, Johann Juri, as I mentioned earlier, they were granted land there by the English proprietors in 1760, and they would have been pretty much out on their own. It wasn't a very thickly established area.
Jamie Franklin: Bennington over the course of the 1760s and into the 1770s, and what we now know as [00:09:00] Old Bennington, which is right here behind the museum. So it's starting to become what you would understand as a community of settlement. There were houses, there were general stores and other stores along the main street. The Kriegers living there next to their mill along the Hoosic River wouldn't have had a whole lot of neighbors. There were a couple of people settled there sporadically beginning in the 1760s under the English grants that were being awarded at that time.
Jamie Franklin: They ran a mill. They had three sons who were born in the period after they settled in Pownal. So actually Margaret and Juri were married in 1745 and probably settled in Pownal shortly thereafter. For Margaret, it would have been, raising the boys, helping Johann with the mill and around the family, probably helping out with livestock. They probably would have raised a lot of their own food, they probably would have had gardens. It would be pure conjecture to think about what their social life, or even what their relationship with the larger community would've been, other than the fact [00:10:00] that we know that they would've been seen as somewhat of outsiders from the beginning, because they were part of the Dutch squatters group, which had largely been eradicated and sent away by the English grantees in the 1760s.
Josh Hutchinson: Sounds like they could have been the only German family there, and that must have been culturally, a big culture shock initially.
Jamie Franklin: Yeah, no, and they were very much a part of that culture. They were married at the Albany Dutch Reformed Church, so they were more connected there, though Margaret herself had actually been born in Williamstown, Massachusetts, which is just south of Pownal. She was born there in 1725. Her parents were Germanic. I don't know that larger context. Williamstown was largely a fort and military outpost in the 18th century, so I'm sure that there was some intermingling between sort of the English settlers connected to the fort and some of the kind of Dutch settlers that were on the kind [00:11:00] of far edge of the New York German settlements there, but they lived within the community seemingly working well with their neighbors.
Jamie Franklin: A lot of it is conjecture because we only know the real basic facts about her life. We know when she was born, we know her parents, we know her children, we know when she was married. We know those sorts of basic biographical facts, but everything else, beyond the fact that this was very much on the edge of settlement during this period. A lot of it would be up to conjecture.
Sarah Jack: So they had a long marriage before he passed away. And then what happened?
Jamie Franklin: Johann Juri, or John Gregor as it was anglicized, after establishing himself in Pownal amongst the English, they referred to him as John Gregor Krieger. He passed away in 1785, and so the story of the Krieger Witch Trial as we know it really is only passed down to [00:12:00] us from one a mid 19th century account. And T. E. Brownell was a well respected Pownal citizen. He was a lawyer and he wrote a early history of Pownal in the 1860s. It was actually published as part of Anne Marie Hemenway's compilation of Vermont histories. She edited a multi volume suit of town histories that composed the entire early history of Vermont, and so Brownell wrote this early history of Pownal, and within that early history of Pownal, which was published in the 1860s, as I said earlier, was a one paragraph account, which is really all we have to base our knowledge of the trial itself on. Again a fairly reliable source but coming some 80 years after the events that it purports to tell, and we don't have an exact date for when the trial itself occurred.
Jamie Franklin: However, we can I think, fairly know that it probably happened not [00:13:00] long after Johann Krieger passed away in 1785. Her sons, or those who were still living, at least, actually two of her sons passed away prior to her husband, had established a mill down in Williamstown, where their mother had come from. And they had been down there since the 1760s. So when her husband passed away in 1785, she would have been a widow living on her own on property with a mill that would have been highly desirous to her neighbors, who may not have liked them in the first place or the fact that they were granted land in the first place some 25 years earlier.
Jamie Franklin: And based on our knowledge of the history, the story as Brownell told it, we can assume that she was probably accused of witchcraft shortly after he passed away in 1785.
Jamie Franklin: Their name is Krieger. It's spelled a million different ways, depending on where you look. Brownell actually refers to them as the Gregors, G R E G O R. We generally refer to them [00:14:00] today as the Kriegers. K R I E G E R. Though on their gravestones it's Kriger. K R I G E R. I just used that to preface this because he begins the story with Gregor.
Jamie Franklin: 'Gregor settled a little north of the Rock, which bears his name,' and I'll say Krieger Rocks is still a well known landmark there in Pownal, above the river. 'A very good story, the Truth of which we do not vouch, is told of his wife. This of course brought upon her the envy and suspicion of the good people. And in after years, when witchcraft prevailed and her husband had gone to his long rest, she was accused of being a witch and brought before a committee appointed to judge and dispense justice in such cases.
Jamie Franklin: After reviewing of the grounds of accusation and consulting the evidence of the case, they deferred a direct decision and required that she be subjugated to two tests in order that they might determine the points of witchery. First, that she should climb a tree, and if upon cutting it she was not [00:15:00] killed, she was a witch, otherwise not. Second, that a hole be cut in the ice sufficient to let her body through, and if upon trial she sunk to the bottom, an acquittal should be granted, but if she floated, the penalty of the law should be visited upon her.
Jamie Franklin: After some deliberation, they adopted the latter test, and the poor woman was obliged to undergo the process of sinking, which of course she did. With much effort, she was saved from drowning and allowed to go free, with the wise conclusion of the judge, that if she had been a witch, the powers infernal would have supported her.'
Jamie Franklin: That's the entire account of the Krieger Witch Trial as it's been passed down to us. Everything else just basically has to be inferred through the little that we can determine about her life, which thanks to Joyce Held , who I've collaborated with very closely on this project. Joyce Held is a member of the Pownal Historical Society and has done extensive research to help unearth Margaret Krieger and give her name [00:16:00] back as part of this larger research project.
Josh Hutchinson: There's so much there that I want to touch on. The story of a widow owning property that's coveted by neighbors is very familiar in witch trial history and not having her sons in town to defend her or take, or I assume they didn't take control of their father's property after he died and it went to her. We've seen that several times.
Jamie Franklin: Yeah, no, and again it's supposition, but I think based on the historic record of what we do know as you said, this was a fairly common scenario where she technically legally I, I think wasn't. As you said legally speaking, the land should have passed from her husband to her one living son, but he was already well established with his own mill in Williamstown, south of Pownal. We can [00:17:00] probably assume fairly accurately that the son wasn't going to take over the mill. Her neighbors probably understood the basics of that story and accusing her of being extraordinary, whatever that means. That was basically the only thing she was being accused of, as far as Brownell is telling the story. That's the only real basis that we have of her being accused, but I think the larger context of them having been granted that land somewhat outside of the normal context, because they had established that mill.
Jamie Franklin: 1785, you're still early on. It may have been, I'm not 100 percent sure on this, it probably was still the only mill there in North Pownal in the immediately surrounding area, and mills were very much needed during this period. They would have to grind wheat and corn. They were used for all sorts of reasons. I know when Bennington was being set up, one of the very first things that was ordered was that they put out a call amongst all of the early settlers and said, 'the first person to build a [00:18:00] mill will be granted the land upon which it is built.'
Jamie Franklin: And so these sorts of things were really critical infrastructure in these towns during the 18th century. And having a woman being the only kind of heir to a property that's highly coveted within the community and having the family already been somewhat outsiders, I think we can safely assume that the accusation was largely based on the desire to take that land.
Sarah Jack: And according to the account, it looks like they were using the current legal system to try to uproot her or to proceed. What legal code were they operating under?
Jamie Franklin: They say committee. What exactly that means is a little unclear. Vermont was an independent republic at this time. There probably would have been some committees would have probably been centered around more populated areas, so Bennington would have had some sort of judicial apparatus in effect, but the use of the word [00:19:00] committee, and actually I've also seen it referred to as a safety committee. That term isn't used in Brownell's account, so it's a conjecture, but there were series of committees, one of which were known as safety committees, that were set up during the period of the Revolutionary War.
Jamie Franklin: And because Bennington was an epicenter of the war, we had the battle here in 1777, there was quite a bit of activity, and there was very active safety committees that were going on here in the mid 1770s. Now, by the mid 1780s, I don't know exactly what the relationship between those kind of pre Vermont Constitution committees and the Constitution would have been, but I think it's safe to say that there might have been informal, local kind of safety committees, what would have essentially served as the judicial apparatus of that local community at the time, which would have been composed of her neighbors who coveted her land. That's probably the best guess [00:20:00] that we can make, but I'm guessing that it was something along the lines of what we understand to be a safety committee like those that were operating during the Revolution, probably composed of her neighbors who are the same people who are accusing her of witchcraft.
Josh Hutchinson: Now, you said two of her sons had passed before their father?
Jamie Franklin: One of them passed away. They were granted land and built a mill, as I mentioned earlier in Williamstown. I think that was in 1767. And then four years later, so I guess that would've been 1771, one of her sons passed. And then another one of her sons actually died in the Battle of Bennington in 1777. Yeah, her sons were definitely intimately involved in kind of communities relatively nearby, involved in the Battle of Bennington so they were definitely, they weren't ostracized from their communities in any way.
Jamie Franklin: And then her son would have died a war hero. And it seems a little odd to me [00:21:00] that they go after her after her son's given his life for the new country. But there were other reasons driving them to target her. The irony and I think the kind of contradictions of the Revolution are myriad. We've been doing a lot of research into the role of kind of the black presence during the Revolutionary War and the Battle of Bennington. Sipp Ives is a figure who's only in recent years come to attention, and he was actually a black man who fought for the Green Mountain Boys and lost his life during the Revolution, and the irony of a black man fighting for freedom for his country when he wasn't going to be granted that same freedom that he was fighting for his neighbors. So those sort of ironies, I think abound when you think about the revolution and kind of the quote unquote 'ideals' that were being fought for.
Sarah Jack: Is there anything interesting that happened to her after her trial?
Jamie Franklin: We don't know a lot about what happened to her [00:22:00] after her trial except for the fact that she moved back to Williamstown, where she was born and where her one surviving son lived and had a mill. And I think it makes perfect sense. You're accused of witchcraft, you're dunked in the icy river, luckily you survive, you're saved, you're acquitted. You probably don't want to live there anymore, and it may very well be that she was essentially pushed out, because the same people who accused her of witchcraft and wanted to grab her land may have made life, despite being acquitted of witchcraft, relatively unbearable.
Jamie Franklin: Again, all conjecture but we do know she moved back to Pownal and lived out the last few years of her life there in Pownal with her son and her grandchildren, and which is where she's buried, she's buried there in the West Lawn Cemetery in Pownal, alongside her husband and her sons and grandchildren.
Josh Hutchinson: I find the idea of a tree test very interesting. I haven't encountered that [00:23:00] before in any other witch trial.
Jamie Franklin: The water test is iconic. You see the image of it that was published in the 17th century. Sometimes you see them hanging on chairs with a a seesaw apparatus where they dunk them. Sometimes they're bound.
Jamie Franklin: The idea of climbing a tree. There is at least one other version of the story, which is basically a retelling of Brownell's account. Grace Greylock Niles was another kind of town historian. She was a bit of an eccentric. She wrote a number of books. Her account of the Krieger trial largely parallels Brownell's, but she confuses things and attributes the widow to one of the sons, which made no sense, because the son didn't have a widow, so she gets her facts wrong, but the tree idea is something that just comes up, and in some cases, it seems like she was given an option between the two. In Brownell's telling, it's more like they're going to test her with both, but then in deliberation, they decide that the [00:24:00] water test is the better. If I were given a choice between the two, I'd choose the icy water myself, because there's not a lot of chance you're going to survive, or at least be in very good condition if you're, depending on how high they expect you to climb and how far you fall, that doesn't seem like a very good option.
Jamie Franklin: That's another one I haven't heard of, but it comes up in Brownell's and in Grace Greylock's accounts of the Krieger Witch Trial but apparently it was vetoed. And the water trial is what they ended up going with.
Sarah Jack: My first thought is maybe they were thinking, oh, we're not going to be able to cut through the ice, and she has to be tested. But then they're like how high can she climb? How, maybe she was, strong and sturdy, she was extraordinary, but maybe it was going to be too problematic to do the tree. But man, plunging into icy water. Do we know what month this happened in?
Jamie Franklin: Don't know what time it is, but they mention ice in Brownell's account very clearly, so one can assume, and cutting a hole in the ice. The idea of cutting a [00:25:00] hole in the ice, the river, it's a flowing body of water. Imagine it. Images of this where they're bound and tied and so that there would have been a rope attached to her, so it's not like they just dropped her in, she sank, because then you would have floated down the river, and how do you pull her back up out of the ice when she's out of there?
Jamie Franklin: So I'm guessing they had a rope attached to her that allowed them to pull her back in, but that wouldn't have been pleasant regardless. The tree would have been bad enough, but the ice wasn't a great way to go either.
Sarah Jack: And she could have, she could be the last woman to undergo a water test like that in the colonies.
Jamie Franklin: It's interesting one of the fun little bits that I was able to dig up as, as I was just doing research about this and trying to understand the larger context and, we think of witch trials and, me as somebody who's interested in history and has a basic knowledge, the Salem Witch Trials in the late 17th century, but 1785 is really late.
Jamie Franklin: And [00:26:00] so I was just trying to do a little bit of digging and figuring out what were they talking, what sort of things were they saying about witches, witchcraft, here in southwestern Vermont in the late 18th century. And in fact, I did stumble across a couple of newspaper articles from the Vermont Gazette, which would have been the local, Bennington-based newspaper, one was from the 1780s, around the time of Krieger's trial, and it was more like an oratorical kind of exercise where you see this occasionally where people will write essays to show off their kind of reasoning and debate skills. And this is a letter that was published in the Vermont Gazette, I think it was 1788, where he's basically giving all the reasons why witchcraft is not real.
Jamie Franklin: But then even more interestingly was a wonderful article that was published in the Vermont Gazette in 1801. And it's unsigned, but he refers to the last 35 years, so presumably [00:27:00] he's 35 years old or around that, or maybe 35 years from his, what he refers to as his childhood, and he says that witchcraft has been on the decrease over the last 35 years. So that would have dated back to the 1760s, 1770s, depending on exactly what he meant by 35 years ago and, it's a, it's another wonderfully written article.
Jamie Franklin: The title of the article is Witchcraft, and it starts, 'when I was a boy, I well remember that scarcely a week passed without hearing some notable tale of recent witchcraft. But at this day, we hardly hear such a tale once a month. Then there were at least four able-bodied witches to a town, but now scarcely one can be mustered. Now I know of several whose towns with not a single witch in them. Then, if a teamster had his sled or wheels upset, the nearest witch was sure to bear the blame of it. But now he is forced to lay it off upon a rock, a stump, or a snowdrift. In those days, if a man was taken out of his warm bed and [00:28:00] ridden a hundred miles through the air, it was certainly some old witch who did it. Now it is turned off upon a dream, a disturbed imagination, or at best, the Nightmare.'
Jamie Franklin: And then he goes on about this and then towards the end he goes on to surmise why witchcraft has been on the wane. So he says, they actually talk about the revolution being one of the reasons why witchcraft might have been on the wane, which of course doesn't explain why there was a witch trial in 1785, right on the tail end of the Revolutionary War, but he goes 'no, I hereby declare it is my opinion that this decrease is owing to another cause.' Quote, 'every generation grows wiser and wiser, I will add, better and better, and not a word more.' And that's how the article ends. So that's an article published here in Bennington in 1801, giving some sort of context for the idea that witchcraft and witches were something that somebody growing up in the 1760s and 70s around this area would have found relatively [00:29:00] commonplace.
Jamie Franklin: However, Krieger's is the only known witch trial. Of course, it's a vague record, and there may have been other cases, but we don't know of them. It's the only known witch trial, and it is quite a late date, as you note, 1785. I don't know of any trials anywhere in New England after that date. It's the only one ever recorded in Vermont, to the best of our knowledge.
Josh Hutchinson: The latest that we know of before that would have been a 1697 trials of Sarah's ancestor in Connecticut, Winifred Benham, and her daughter, Winifred Benham Jr. That's the last formal one that we have court records for. But I do want to point out that we've spoken with a witch trial historian, Owen Davies, who wrote a book called America Bewitched. And in there, he says that due to extrajudicial, people taking the law [00:30:00] into their own hands to deal with witches, more people actually died as witches after Salem than were killed by the authorities.
Jamie Franklin: Yeah. And it's tough because there's really no hard documentation to go by here, because Vermont was very much in limbo, literally and certainly figuratively, too, caught between New York and New Hampshire, an independent republic, there's very little kind of formal legal paperwork that survives, and Pownal as a town and a community was extremely small at this period, and I know that Joyce has also gone over to Albany and Troy to try and see if there are any records there, and she hasn't been able to track any down, and we don't have any documentation of it, but that doesn't mean that other examples of this might have happened during the period. Because it seems like the idea of witches and witchcraft, according to that 1801 account, were not something that would have been surprising.
Josh Hutchinson: There were [00:31:00] definitely rumors of witchcraft and off the record accusations going on that are reported in some newspapers through the 18th century and even the 19th century and up to today, you see this occasionally. So yeah, witchcraft belief is very persistent.
Jamie Franklin: And that's actually one of the reasons why I really was excited to be able to do this project and to erect the marker to commemorate the trial, because accusations of witch hunts are something we're hearing a lot about these days, and so I think these issues of false accusations and lack of following the judicial process, those are things that are happening to this day. It's different contexts, but it's still very much something that I think is relevant to us today.
Sarah Jack: I think this historical marker project is really a big deal. I'd love to hear how you got involved, how you and Joyce Held [00:32:00] connected and moved forward.
Jamie Franklin: The Krieger Witch Trial Marker Project was an outgrowth of actually an exhibition that I curated, which is here at the Bennington Museum right now, and it runs through the end of the year. I don't know if anybody's going to hear this before the end of the year, but so the project grew out of that, and actually I reached out to Pownal and the folks at the Pownal Historical Society a year and a half ago now. I don't remember the exact timing, I think it was spring of 2022, and I was working on this project. I wanted to learn what they knew about the Krieger Witch Trial, and Joyce had really been already working on this for a decade or so, trying to dig up information on who Widow Krieger was, what her name was, all of the information that she ultimately discovered.
Jamie Franklin: And I met with them about that, and then around the same time in the summer of last year, 2022, the Manchester Historical Society, which is just north of us here in Bennington, Sean Harrington is the curator of the Manchester Historical [00:33:00] Society, and he partnered with the Vermont Folklife Center, which is the state sponsor of the William G. Pomeroy Foundation, and the Pomeroy Foundation has a historic marker program called Legends and Lore, and the Pomeroy Foundation is probably better known for funding all of the New York State historic markers. The historic markers that are erected now in the late 20th and now in the 21st century are not actually funded by the state of New York. They're funded by the William G. Pomeroy Foundation and so they have this Legends and Lore marker project. Sean Harrington at the Manchester Historical Society worked with Andy Kolovos who is at the Vermont Folklife Center and the William G. Pomeroy Foundation to create a marker to what's known as the Manchester Vampire or the Demon Vampire of Manchester. And so this is a whole other wonderful story, which kind of provides context into kind of late 18th century belief systems here in southwestern Vermont. In [00:34:00] very brief, the story of the Manchester Vampire. The only surviving account is a handwritten manuscript, which is part of a largerearly history of Manchester, which was written by a Pettibone, a well respected member of the Manchester community, believed to be written around the 1860s, and it recalls the story of Rachel Burton. So Rachel Burton was married to Isaac Burton, Captain Isaac Burton, who had actually fought in the Revolution, and she died what we now know as tuberculosis, back then it was consumption in 1791. Captain Burton, her widow husband, remarried, and about a year after he remarried, his second wife also died of consumption, and I hear that story and I go of course, if you're going to accuse somebody of vampirism, it's gotta be the husband, Isaac Burton, but no, it was the first wife, Rachel Burton, that was accused of being a vampire.
Jamie Franklin: You look at it, and you think the reality of it [00:35:00] is Isaac Burton was probably an asymptomatic carrier of consumption, and both of his wives caught it from him, but this was a case where Pettibone tells the story that his friends and family became kind of inflamed with this idea that they needed to dig up Rachel Burton's body, and they actually, the story goes that they burnt her remaining organs in a public spectacle there in Manchester around 1793.
Jamie Franklin: And so they erected this marker to the vampire story there in Manchester last year, and so I connected with Sean Harrington, who I know, I work with closely. He's on a number of committees here at the Bennington Museum, and he connected me with the Vermont Folklife Center and the Pomeroy Foundation, and we decided as part of this larger exhibition project, Haunted Vermont, we wanted to create a historic marker through the Pomeroy Foundation grant program to commemorate the Krieger Witch Trial.
Josh Hutchinson: What can you tell us about the [00:36:00] dedication ceremony?
Jamie Franklin: I worked closely with the Pownal Historical Society through all of this. The museum was the kind of non profit of note that applied for the grant. We applied to the Pomeroy Foundation through the museum. We were awarded the grant. And then I worked closely with the Pownal Historical Society.
Jamie Franklin: We had our own Krieger Witch Trial subcommittee. So we helped plan the dedication ceremony that happened back in September. And they really wanted to make it a kind of family friendly, basically honoring Margaret Krieger's memory and recognizing the ordeal that she went through, and so we actually started the dedication ceremony with a witches walk. So we invited people to come dressed up as witches, whatever that meant to them. There were a lot of kind of stereotypical popular American culture type witches wearing pointy black hats, black cats, brooms, but I think somewhere around two to three dozen people showed up wearing witch [00:37:00] costumes, and so we had a little parade that was led by a couple of musicians across the bridge, which crosses the Hoosic River, which is right there adjacent to where we put the sign. So the sign is in what's known as Strobridge Park, right there in North Pownal. It's off of Route 346 as you're driving through North Pownal on Dean Road. A bridge crosses the river right there.
Jamie Franklin: So they paraded across the river towards where the historic marker is, and then we had a brief kind of ceremony where I gave some remarks. I talked a little bit. I mentioned the 1801 newspaper article and talking about the idea of becoming better and acknowledging that this is still an issue, people are still being accused unjustly of a lot of things due to various belief systems. And this is something that we need to keep in our kind of collective community memory.
Jamie Franklin: Joyce Held then told the story of Margaret Krieger basically for the first time. She wanted to keep a lot of the information that she had been doing, researching, close to her chest until it was finally made public, and she told that story there[00:38:00] at the dedication ceremony. Sean Harrington was also there as a representative of the Vermont Folklife Center.
Jamie Franklin: And then we revealed and pulled the the cloth off of the marker. And so it was a really fun time. We had live music. We had treats for the kids. There were a lot of young people there. It was really fun, but there were also older people who are very deeply interested in early American, early Vermont history, reenactor types that we're interested in those sorts of things. So it was really wonderful. I think we had something like 100 to 150 people show up for the dedication ceremony there. So it was really wonderful to be able to go through this process of research, of getting the grant, and then finally putting the sign up and seeing that it's a story that really resonated with people today in 2023.
Josh Hutchinson: A great turnout. I'm so glad everybody got to hear the story and why it's relevant today.
Sarah Jack: Is there anything else you would like to share about the museum or [00:39:00] Margaret or anything else you'd like to put out there?
Jamie Franklin: Haunted Vermont was a really fun exhibit. I was able to do research on the Krieger Witch Trial, on the Manchester Vampire. Another kind of integral part of that exhibition is an archive of materials that we recently were gifted by Shirley Jackson's eldest son, Lawrence Hyman. So Shirley Jackson, for those who aren't familiar, was a mid 20th century writer. I call her the queen of Gothic fiction. She's probably best known for her short story, 'The Lottery,' but she also wrote a number of novels, including The Haunting of Hill House, which has received quite a bit of attention in the last couple of years. There was a Netflix very roughly based on The Haunting of Hill House recently. And she actually wrote a book for school aged children ages 8 to 12, on the Salem Witch Trials in 1956 or 57. You think about when that was published and the idea that children should be learning about the Salem Witch Trials was right at the height of the Red Scare and McCarthyism, [00:40:00] and so I say all of this only because we'll continue to have a selection of material from Shirley Jackson's archives out and on permanent display for years to come. It doesn't necessarily tell the Krieger Witch Trial story, but for those who are interested in those sorts of things and in Shirley Jackson's work, her work will continue to be on view here at the Bennington Museum.
Jamie Franklin: We tell the history and story of Southern Vermont, and anybody interested in that material, we're open to the public. We close for a couple of months in the early winter, January, February, and March, but we reopen on April 1st, and we're open through the rest of the year, and we're usually open, depending on what time of year it is. Our schedule sometimes shifts, but during the height of our exhibition cycle, from like June through October, we're open seven days a week from ten to four, usually.
Jamie Franklin: But just check our website. It's www.benningtonmuseum.org. That will have the latest up to date hours and days that we're open. And I encourage people to come and learn not just about Widow Krieger, but about Vermont history at large.[00:41:00]
Sarah Jack: And now for a minute with Mary.
Mary-Louise Bingham: Gary Foxcroft began his advocacy when he and his wife, Naomi, began to enroll children deprived of an education in a primary school they built with the support of family and friends at Akwa Ibom State in Nigeria. Many of these children were believed by their families to be practicing sorcery and were thrown to live on the streets. These children were now at risk of being exploited and suffered brutal deaths. Gary and Naomi connected with other advocates to provide shelters for these children and consulted with UN agencies. Gary was the subject of a documentary linked in the show notes, titled Saving Africa's Witch Children. Safe Child Africa is an organization that is based in the UK which was cofounded by Gary and Naomi. After 15 years of advocacy, Gary is now focusing on other [00:42:00] endeavors. Thank you, Gary Foxcroft, for the children that still live.
Sarah Jack: Thank you, Mary.
Josh Hutchinson: Here's Sarah with End Witch Hunts News.
Sarah Jack: End Witch Hunts, a non profit 501(c)3 organization, Weekly News Update.
Sarah Jack: We would like to acknowledge the positive progress made by the global community against witch hunts in the past year. At End Witch Hunts, we remain steadfast in our support for and recognition of advocates and organizations driving positive social change in communities worldwide grappling with witch hunts and violence from witchcraft accusations. Numerous initiatives and collaborations are actively addressing this issue. Anti-witch-hunt advocates encompass a diverse array of individuals, including victims, their families, descendants, academics, professors, authors, activists, lawyers, politicians, ambassadors, journalists, podcasters, artists, museum directors, writers, playwrights, [00:43:00] policemen, teachers, genealogists, historians, students, senior adults, middle aged adults, young adults, teenagers, and children. Anyone contributing to the mission to end witch hunts by expanding the reach of impact through their unique talents, skills, and knowledge, be it through education, legal interventions, or courageous conversations, is a powerful voice for the innocent. Whether you've delved into an informative book, participated in an online education or advocacy event, tuned in to a podcast episode addressing human rights, or engaged in the conversation to end witch hunts in any capacity, you too are an advocate for the innocent. We thank you for being a part of this growing movement to stop hunting witches.
Sarah Jack: As we close out 2023, we want to illuminate the remarkable efforts of our dedicated volunteers, creators, and guests, who have been instrumental in shaping our podcast and contributing to the success of all End Witch Hunts education, memorial, and justice initiatives. [00:44:00] These champions are committed to combating the age-old scourge of witch hunts, advocating for change, education, tolerance, and justice on a local and global scale. In a world where fear and disregard for the dignity of all mankind lead to the harm and persecution of vulnerable and innocent individuals, End Witch Hunts aims to be an organization of action.
Sarah Jack: In May of 2023, collaborative efforts to pass state legislation absolving those accused of witchcraft in Connecticut culminated in the adoption of House Joint Resolution 34. This landmark resolution offered an apology and cleared the names of 34 witch trial victims. Our exoneration and memorial efforts aim to honor victims, raise awareness, develop purposeful conversations, and foster understanding about accepting all vulnerable members of a community.
Sarah Jack: Take a stand for justice. Sign our petition at change.org/witchtrials to urge the state of Massachusetts to amend legislation, ensuring the inclusion of all those wrongfully [00:45:00] executed for witchcraft in the Massachusetts colony. Five women faced unjust executions for witchcraft in 17th-century Boston, and it's time to clear their names.
Sarah Jack: Additionally, support the crucial work of memorials for all witch trial victims in Connecticut by visiting connecticutwitchtrials.org. Engage with witch trial memorials. Amplify their stories on your social media and play a vital role in raising awareness. The future safety of potential witch hunt victims relies on this collective effort.
Sarah Jack: Be a part of the movement for witch hunt justice. As we leap into 2024, let's persist in elevating the voices of both historical and contemporary victims of witch hunts. Together, we can demand a future where each individual is accorded the dignity, safety, and respect they rightfully deserve.
Sarah Jack: When the dawn of 2024 breaks on January 1st, we'll have transformed the podcast to its new name, Witch Hunt. We appreciate your ongoing support and can't wait to continue this journey. Work with us in 2024 by discussing why we hunt witches, [00:46:00] how we hunt witches, who we hunt as witches, and how we stop hunting witches. Your voice is part of the work. Visit aboutwitchhunts.com/ starting January 1st, 2024.
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Josh Hutchinson: Thank you, Sarah.
Sarah Jack: You're welcome.
Josh Hutchinson: Thank you for listening to Thou Shalt Not Suffer: The Witch Trial Podcast.
Sarah Jack: Join us next Wednesday for the inaugural episode of Witch Hunt.
Josh Hutchinson: That's right, subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts and the next episode will be in your inbox on Witch Hunt Wednesday.
Sarah Jack: To visit us, now go to aboutwitchhunts.com/.[00:47:00]
Josh Hutchinson: Remember to tell all your friends about this show.
Sarah Jack: Support our efforts to end witch hunts. Visit endwitchhunts.org to learn more about our organization.
Josh Hutchinson: Have a great today and a beautiful tomorrow.